'Knickers'

[Alex Bragi]

The other day, a friend mentioned to me that he found the word ‘knickers’, in a story, a total turn off. I don’t have a problem with that one, however, immediately I read ‘suckled’ ‘suckling’ its like a buck of ice water being thrown over me. Isn't it odd how certain words can do that to you?

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by Alex Bragi
...its like a buck of ice water being thrown over me. Isn't it odd how certain words can do that to you?

Yes indeed! there is one particular phrase that makes me reach for the 'close' button on a story and it is "engorged manhood" or any such silly descriptions some male writers are fond of using. It makes them appear to be obsessed by their erections.

I mean we are all of legal age, otherwise we would not be here. Just called what it is: an erection, and tell me what it will do, not what it looks like.

Yes I know I am being a typical female, not very visual and more interested in getting to the good parts.

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka
Yes indeed! there is one particular phrase that makes me reach for the 'close' button on a story and it is "engorged manhood" or any such silly descriptions some male writers are fond of using. It makes them appear to be obsessed by their erections.

I mean we are all of legal age, otherwise we would not be here. Just called what it is: an erection, and tell me what it will do, not what it looks like.

I must plead Guilty as charged as far as using that and similar descriptions goes. But in fairness, Nikka, doesn't telling 'what it looks like' (as regards all the 'naughty bits', not just the male erection, of course) play a huge role in pornography?

But I have my own bete noires, too. The word 'arse' (not the thing itself, mind you) is a turn-off for me. In fact I rarely use any of the Anglo-Saxon vulgarisms for the female anatomy when writing in the third person (although the dialog of my more ruffian-like characters shows no such compunctions).

Another curious thing is how some feminine names "sound" wholly un-erotic to me -- Mary, Alice, Frances, Maude, Jane, to name a few.

Whereas their cognates - Maria, Alicia, Francesca, Madeleine, and Jeannette 'sound' more alluring to me.

Strange how we each have our own quirky little tastes.

Nikka, by the way, is a lovely name, in this regard. ;-)


Boccaccio

[kittenfemme]

I usually choose not to use or like very vulgar descriptive terms, though I'm not adverse to characters using them. That's an important distinction and one that you're very wise to have pointed out boccaccio2000g.

I also agree with you on the aspects of romance languages' femme name pronunciations. I offer that it is, perhaps, because almost everything has a gender in many languages. Kennedy's botched "Ich bin ein Berliner" quote is a perfect example. If he's speaking of Berliner with a male inflection, then he's referring to a male person who resides in Berlin. But saying it with a female inflection, as he did, is speaking of a jelly doughnut. My point is that perhaps those names sound more femme from a language that casually deals with gender inflections in speech. English doesn't for the most part.

Regardless, I agree with you. I particularly find French, Italian, Spanish, and occasionally Russian female names to be quite enticing. A major character in my latest novel has the name Talya (short for Natalya). It's a name that I adore.

And while "engorged manhood" doesn't make me want to close the piece I'm reading, it does pull me away from the story by making me laugh.

[Aurelius]

Great thread, not least because the Canadians and the Americans can probably unite (for a change) against the Brits/Australians.

I'd like to propose bum as a great British word, so soft and curvy and yummy. I can't understand why North Americans have a problem with it. To a British reader it sounds far better than butt or buttocks.

Just for the linguists, both words are Middle English (ie pre 14th century.)

My opinion...
Engorged manhood. NO
Knickers. OK
Suckled, Suckling. OK I guess
Globes (meaning breasts) NO!!
Twat. GOD NO!

[kittenfemme]

LOL Aurelius! I agree that bum is underappreciated in american English. And globes? Ha! Yeah, that would have me rolling with laughter or at least rolling my eyes.

[Kallie Thomas]

I remember the first "dirty book" I ever read--was some bit of gay BDSM stuff I nicked from a roommate. And I was getting into it, too--in a serious way . . . until the emergence of the attacker's "incredible, gargantuan fuck tool."

Bye-bye mood, hello uproarious laughter.

Pretty much anything prefaced with "fuck" can inspire gales of giggling with me. "Fucktool," "Fuckhole," "Fuckbox," etc. Especially if assigned a marvelously overblown adjective--like "incredible" or "fantabulous."

I like cunt (hush ), hole, pussy. I struggle with snatch. And twat? That's my 7th grade English teacher, not a woman's vagina.

Love cock, will use tool or meat just to break up the monotony. Occasionally use dick, but feel funny about it--seems more name calling than describing a penis.


Kallie

[Curtis]

I'm not a 'bum' man, myself, and 'ass' is something you say about someone. 'Butt' is...okay, but 'buttocks' always reminds me of a couple of jokes. Some writer for the old Star Distributors was ennamored of 'cakes' and 'buttcakes'. Gag me.

It's not totally satisfactory, but I tend toward 'rear'.

And 'knickers' causes snickers.

[pop_54]

Odd words don't worry me over much as long as they aren't repeated over and over, then they get on my nerves, they are of course, (being English myself).

'Pussy' Jesus H Christ, it cracks me up, "Arnold thrust his quivering manhood deep into her pussy", hell's bells you get locked up for shagging cats over here.

'Ass' (spelt wrongly) "Arnold eased his dripping wet pork sword out of her pussy and rammed it up her ass" Yee Gods I thought he was bumming the bitch not screwing her donkey, I'm not into beasty.

I don't mind 'Butt', I prefer 'Arse' of course instead of the donkey, 'Pussy' as I say is Ok in small doses, but being a cat lover I don't like to see them get too much abuse. 'Knickers' is fine by me, but 'Panties' again moderation please, we put 3 yr olds in panties over here, women wear knickers.

The usual idiot names for the tool and orifice are a turn off. Anything using 'Throbbing' or 'Monster' or 'Quivering' etc, etc, is out.

I use slang terms and the odd over exaggerated description as humour breaks occasionally myself though I must admit. 'One-eyed-Bed-Snake', 'Trouser Mamba', 'Dripping love chamber', 'Cream filled fuck bucket', but only in light hearted stories.

Normal words that I use commonly and don't object to at all are:
Prick, cock, dick, cunt, fanny, twat (occasionally), vagina and penis are Ok but make it all sound a bit clinical or like kids sex education. Erection is nice in a moderately high class story, but hard-on or bone-on is the best for dirty tales.

My big turn OFF and immediate reaching for the back button is of course the idiot story teller who insists everyone in his/her tale is Mr/Ms/Mrs perfect, and said story teller has carefully measured each character to prove it. Each character of course makes the average reader feel very inadequate.

"Arnold was 6ft 3ins with a 42in chest and weighing 190lbs, his throbbing manhood was protruding to the full 15 inches as he offered it to Marcia, Marcia lay naked in front of him, her 38DD breasts and perfectly formed flat belly along with her incredibly shapely hips and legs causing Arnold's 15 inch monster mamba to quiver and pulse, pre-cum dribbling from his massive purple helmet eye" Oh really, CLICK!!! (What the fuck's pre-cum anyway)

I like to make my characters attractive but somehow normal and attractive, "A big bloke, quite muscular" does for me, "Above average weapon" no silly precise measurement and let the reader decide what average should be. I prefer my woman to be normal as well, "Well put together", "Nicely formed", let the reader do the thinking and visualising, they like that.

Most of my characters aren't perfect, I'm not perfect and I don't expect them to be, I don't go out of my way to make them ugly, just normal "Slightly pot bellied, but not overly so", "strangely small tits for a woman of her general build", but I like little tits, so do a lot of people.

Just a few observations from old pops.

[kittenfemme]

Bwa ha ha ha! Pops! You kill me. Thank you. I needed a good laugh. Massive purple helmet eye... LOL!

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Aurelius
Great thread, not least because the Canadians and the Americans can probably unite (for a change) against the Brits/Australians.

I'd like to propose bum as a great British word, so soft and curvy and yummy. I can't understand why North Americans have a problem with it. To a British reader it sounds far better than butt or buttocks.

Just for the linguists, both words are Middle English (ie pre 14th century.)

My opinion...
Engorged manhood. NO
Knickers. OK
Suckled, Suckling. OK I guess
Globes (meaning breasts) NO!!
Twat. GOD NO!

Gosh, we colonists have strayed rather far afield, I fear. I don't care for "bum", or "arse" (or "ass", much). Nor "knickers", nor "suckling". I especially don't like the word "bubbies" (breasts) which one encounters in a lot of Victorian (or perhaps faux-Victorian) erotica.

I'm sure I use the term "globes", um, ex-orb-itantly, usually as part of a compound word. I probably use the word "globes" more often than GHWB uses the word "terrorist". Love-globes, girl-globes, lust-globes, pleasure-globes, bottom-globes, nether-globes.

Aurelius, surely we have nothing to fear from spheres themselves. ;-)


Were I not to use such euphemisms, I'm sure that the B - R - E - A - S and T keys on my keyboard would be worn to nubs within weeks.

If I ever think of a way to inject a few of Aurelius' high-stepping pony-girls into the steamy Shanghai of the 1880's, I'd probably use the word 'globetrotters'


But I'm with you on "twat", though -- I don't think I've ever used that word -- or ever will.

'Talya' is a fine name, Kitten, as are Tanya, Tatyana, Irina, Vera, Raisa etc. But names like Olga and Ludmilla seem 'heavier' somehow -- even though they, too, end in soft vowels. Maybe it's the hard consonants in the middle.

It's strange how the mind (using the term loosely in my case) works, isn't it?

Boccaccio

[rallan]

I'm not much of an "arse" fan either. It sounds so harsh and insulting, and isn't nearly as nice as the American "ass", or (as someone else mentioned) the always cute "bum".

Globes is a big pet hate of mine, so I think I won't be looking for any boccaccio stories today

Then there's slut and whore. These words are great when they're used in the right place (say, when one character is referring to another and being mean or derogatory), but I don't really like stories where it feels like the author picked "slut" because he's angry at women rather than because it fits the story.

Any cock that's described as "fearsome".

Oh, and "Gor". That's like, a major and humungous alarm bell for me. Gor was bad enough when John Norman did it, and I shudder to think how much worse it can get when online writers of dubious talent have a go



RAllan

[GaryWilcox]

Anybody remember Gwen, aka G42?

She had a thing about using the words 'body' and 'betray' in the same sentence, and after reading about seventy variations on the same sentence, I would have to agree. It's beyond cliche. It's a seven-word sentence instead of four paragraphs describing intense inner conflict.

As words for the penis go, I think penis and cock are tops, and tool, dick, organ, etc. are weak.

For the vagina, I like vagina, naturally, and I can deal with pussy now and then. Anybody remember the high school jock in "Heathers", kneeling down in front of poor dead Heather, and praying, "God, why'd you have to kill such great snatch?" Orifice is weak, twat is something someone says-- but as a writer without misogyny, I can't see any reason to use it.

I think any use of 'steel' to describe a condition of flesh makes me chuckle and end a story.

[GaryWilcox]

Originally posted by pop_54
(What the fuck's pre-cum anyway)

A drop of premature ejaculation that forms at the tip of the cock when a penis anticipates emminent sexual activity.

[AndrewBlack]

Roger's Profanisaurus lists the term "Vinegar Strokes" to describe the same!

[kittenfemme]

Vinegar strokes!?!?! Ha! *much giggling*

It's been forever since I've seen Heathers. I don't remeber that line at all Gary. It's MUCH too funny though. I wonder if I can find a sound bite of it on the web...

PS I love this thread.

[kittenfemme]

Heh, I found it in wav format.

[redEva]

Originally posted by kittenfemme
Heh, I found it in wav format.

NOT WORKING

[kittenfemme]

Oh, well that sux0rs. Try the link from this page

[AndrewBlack]

I agree about 'arse' actually, very west country UK ( think hobbit accent in recent films for those not from the UK or familiar ) and highly un-sexy I suppose. More of a curse really ( Oh ARSE! ) One of those things you take for granted until someone points it out!

[woodsman'sgame]

Because of the variety of connotations produced by the same word in different countries and even in different regions of the same country, I think it would be almost impossible to write a story that did not have some word or phrase in it that someone somewhere found either a turn-off or funny.

I find that I usually am not bothered by a word like "knickers," which is not used by most people from the US, if it is used in a story set in England or written by an English writer. The term would also be appropriate if used to describe the underwear of a woman in the mid-19th century in the US. If the term is out of place, however, (for example it is used to describe the under garments of a concubine in China), it irritates me.

[Cleo671]

I don't mind 'knickers', when used in conversation thats removed from intimate acts. I use the term myself in the everyday when someone blows a gasket and I'll chide them"

'Don't get your knickers in a twist/bind'.
But in an erotic way, '..she slowly removed her knickers'..
it doesn't really do it.. but it can have a place.

'Cock' always works, penis is a bit too 'anatomical'(my brain thinks anatomy).. much like '..her tongue flicked over his corona glandis...' when used in the 'action' part, or when a person is using first term and describing their thoughts, even though yes there are people that do think in term so of 'penis' and not 'cock' etc. 'Prick' is a few notches below 'cock' but more coarse 'sounding'. 'Rod' or 'tool', well! they make me laugh really.Make me think of all the Porky's movies.. 'She saw my tool and fainted' type of thing.

I tend to like 'olde' descriptive English words.. like 'strumpet'.. in describing a female. Sometimes I get tired of reading 'slut' all the time.

[Mobius]

The words Knicker, Arse are the british word for ass and pantie.
I realy don't have a problem with them. Does not bother me one way or another.

But the thing that drives me insane like finger nails on a chalk board is when in an other wise good story when the submisive or for that matter dominant talks about her "Cunny".

If you are going to say it say it "CUNT" REPEAT "CUNT" not "cunny
Men do not call there "cocks", "cocky" We can be cocky and we can go off "half cocked". But we do not call our "dick's" "dicky" or our "penises" "peeny"

I hoped I have made my self clear and the next story that has cunny in it the author will be caned on her "cunny"

[pandemonium]

I think I could get over the words if I could past the spelling errors. My spelling sucks. My grammar sucks.
And there is that movement from third person to first that totally is off the beam.
And things like, He blah blah blah and YOU blah blah blah.

[Carmenica Diaz]

I wear knickers, sorry, I'm in Europe
Panties is so, so so...
It really is.

[Morrighan]

The best any of us can do is write the way we learned from childhood, and try not to laugh too hard when we come across the language barrier in other stories. As far as "knickers" go, the only time I've ever heard that word spoken aloud was when I was watching "Are You Being Served" on PBS, and the was Miss Brahms. Based on that and that alone, I took it as sort of a commoner, lower-class word. I know better now, but it still has that connotation for me. As for the American alternative, panties, for us that denotes lingerie without saying lingerie. Underwear is my tighty-whities. My panties are made of satin. If I'm writing erotica, panties it is.

There are no hard and fast rules for what words we can or can't use, and a multilingual site like this is bound to have a few things that make us chuckle. "Arse" always throws me off--there's nothing sexual about it in my mind. To me, it always seems kind of archaic. As far as the alternatives for "penis", "engorged manhood" is just so overused, it's funny. Every bad romance novel flies back in my face. But to me, "enormous fuck-tool" and the like are porn, not erotica. Each to his own, I suppose. I can get past most of it. Spelling, grammar, and verb-tense switching are the things that make me click the back button.

Morrighan

[leo9]

Panties is so, so so...

So totally pants? :->

[Wontworry]

"Arse" always throws me off--there's nothing sexual about it in my mind. To me, it always seems kind of archaic.
Morrighan

While agreeing with you in part, the problem with 'ass' is when there is more than one.

"... the frightened girls waited, kneeling submissively, their asses ready for the abuse that was to follow ..."

So .. anybody want to use a couple of donkeys ?

[slavelucy]

@ WW - LOL! Yeah, Ass doesn't work in the plural, at all...i can't help but think fondly (er..or not!) of donkey rides on on the front at Blackpool!

This whole thing got me thinking of something that occurred once on a flight to America. There was a couple (American)with four children (who were, btw, like, the best behaved children in the world, far better behaved than *i* was on the flight anyway! )...when the plan landed, and everyone was grabbing their bags and bits and pieces, i heard the Mother say to the children, loudly "Don't forget your fanny packs"....i stopped dead in collecting my stuff together and thought 'whhhaaattt did she say??', i was horrified!!

Minutes later, i noticed what the kids all duly picked up, realized the VERY different meaning the word fanny has in America, as compared to the UK...and cancelled the child abuse report!

sl

[Carmenica Diaz]

Let's not discuss fanny in front of the americans!