Sub vs. Stock?

[Donatien]

. ..... i think to say that ANY change or learning is bad is like saying that teaching is bad, and to take that to the nth degree would be to say that no one should go to school or have any social eduction whatsoever for fear of indoctrination....

i'm of the view that knowledge and understanding of a situation always makes it less likely to have unwanted side effects.
But how does even the dominant prevent themselves from inadvertantly crossing that line? Fuck, but that's a good question! Hopefully via introspection and self-analysis, but, yes i think it could happen, unfortunately it remains one of the potential pitfalls of DS.

Thank YOU for bringing the issue up, it's one that lies very close to my heart on a variety of levels and i've enjoyed clarifying a few things in my own mind
sl x

As it is to mine Lucy, and also related to other threads on

“ Very worried that current bdsm learnings may arise out of past abuse”:-

and to one on “Abused “

to which I contributed a long and hard worked on post laying out how past abuse leaves a number of sequelae ( sequela=morbid affection occurring as the result of a previous illness) that together come into the category of post traumatic stress disorder, and which result in a number of habits of mind developed as a defence to minimize the psychic distress of the past trauma, albeit only partially.
I had been considering a follow up post on measures towards successful recovery, but rearrangement of the thread left it on the shelf as it were.
(2-22-05 post no 21)
http://bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2878

It seems to me that in all these issues, it is vitally important to distinguish the difference between INFLUENCE and MANIPULATION., and to realize that though the techniques employed in both are similar, They differ in the nature of motivation of the participants, the degree of consent in the recipient, and perhaps therefore in the intensity of use of such techniques arising from those differences.

In particular INFLUENCE seeks a win /win situation for both parties ,
whereas MANIPULATION a win/ favouring the dominant, in which in a bdsm situation the submissive's gift of herself is exploited and abused.


In my opinion Lucy is wise to have drawn attention to the fine line that can exist between these two. In some more extreme bdsm situations, where a submissive , possibly as a consequence of past abusive treatment , resulting in extreme desires for submission/ humiliation that might be regarded as pathological, on grounds of their extremity and compulsive/addictive nature embarks on a bdsm relationship , with a dom, lacking in the self discipline and maturity of mind to spot this, or being slightly psychopathic themselves is only too happy to exploit the gift that the sub offers them to the Nth degree


In Psychiatry there is a condition called “Folie a deux” where it appears that two people living in one house are both Psychotic and share the same system of delusions . Yet in hospital, when they are separated it gradually becomes apparent that whilst the dominant partner is indeed Psychotic the weaker and more pliant one is quit sane but has out of love, and to keep the peace undergone a Stockholm type of mind/control , brainwashing , as a result of which they have adopted the others delusions genuinely believing them, until away from that situation and separate from it normality of thought resumes.


That must be an indication of potential risks ,(for subs at any rate) that just might complicate a few intense, 24/7,extreme Bdsm relationships;

and also provide an interesting question for us all as to whether, such a development in a Bdsm relationship could be acceptable if a desired result by both parties?