What kind of questions...

[leah06]

(going off topic here a bit) I wouldn't understand a rapist participating on this type of forum, not saying they wont, or even dont, it just doesn't make sense to me. Why would you force yourself on someone who gets off on it? Rape is about power and making the other person give up that power. Isn't that (kind of) why we are here?

No, it's not. We're here to cede power, under negotiated circumstances, to people we choose. Rape fantasy and the reality of rape are entirely different things.

[Zarine13]

I think you misunderstand me.

I know there is a difference between playing out a fantasy and having the real thing happen. There is a HUGE difference between forced and voluntary. That was not what I was saying at all.

What I was saying was that the difference between those that would dream of submitting to that fantasy and those that are horrified by it are so vastly different, that a rapist taking pickings out of a submissive community makes no sense to me.

[leah06]

I think you misunderstand me.

I know there is a difference between playing out a fantasy and having the real thing happen. There is a HUGE difference between forced and voluntary. That was not what I was saying at all.

What I was saying was that the difference between those that would dream of submitting to that fantasy and those that are horrified by it are so vastly different, that a rapist taking pickings out of a submissive community makes no sense to me.

I'm so sorry. I don't think I've ever directly disagreed with someone on here, and I wouldn't do it now except that this is so important to me. I'm not telling you what you feel, or what other people feel, but for myself - and I do believe for many other people - it is possible to "dream of submitting to that fantasy" AND be "horrified" by the idea of the reality. And the idea, totally mistaken in my opinion, that a rapist would somehow skip over the bdsm community as being too close to his own mindset, is very disturbing to me. I don't believe that there is ANY relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of rape, any more than I believe there is a relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of torture.

Historically, there have been too many categories of women who have been afforded unequal protection against the crime of rape - wives could not be conjugally raped, a prostitute could not be raped (it was "theft of services"), women who were perceived as unchaste were either disbelieved or simply considered to have deserved it - and I don't like to see, even by implication, ANY group of women shuttled into that category for ANY reason. I know this was not your intention, but dividing women into two categories - those who fantasize about rape and those who are horrified by the idea - I think plays into that very damaging mindset.

I'm so sorry to be confrontational about this. I'm addressing the idea that was raised and not anyone personally. I really hope, though, that this post is taken seriously.

[Zarine13]

I'm so sorry. I don't think I've ever directly disagreed with someone on here, and I wouldn't do it now except that this is so important to me. I'm not telling you what you feel, or what other people feel, but for myself - and I do believe for many other people - it is possible to "dream of submitting to that fantasy" AND be "horrified" by the idea of the reality. And the idea, totally mistaken in my opinion, that a rapist would somehow skip over the bdsm community as being too close to his own mindset, is very disturbing to me. I don't believe that there is ANY relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of rape, any more than I believe there is a relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of torture.

Historically, there have been too many categories of women who have been afforded unequal protection against the crime of rape - wives could not be conjugally raped, a prostitute could not be raped (it was "theft of services"), women who were perceived as unchaste were either disbelieved or simply considered to have deserved it - and I don't like to see, even by implication, ANY group of women shuttled into that category for ANY reason. I know this was not your intention, but dividing women into two categories - those who fantasize about rape and those who are horrified by the idea - I think plays into that very damaging mindset.

I'm so sorry to be confrontational about this. I'm addressing the idea that was raised and not anyone personally. I really hope, though, that this post is taken seriously.

Rachel, you'll have to forgive me here, I'm not as good at getting my thoughts into print as you are.

I totally agree with you. What I was saying was not what Thrall was saying or what you are thinking. I agree there is a difference between the fantasy and the real thing, and it's possible to have the fantasy while being horrified by the real thing. I was thinking traditional, hide in the bushes, jump out and grab a woman rapist. To be that kind of rapist in this kind of community doesn't compute with me (again, not saying it isn't possible).

Now I *can* see how Thrall's example would work.

voxelectronica was right, I think we were talking about two different things, I'm just not as clear with my words as others are