New York Times Political Cartoon

[Belgarold]

Thorne,

I know you are being honest about not seeing it, your posts have always been respectful disagreement and not inflammatory. And I know sometimes my posts can seem strident. I don't intend that.

Two points: The getting their face in the news, opportunistic posturing cuts both ways. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the Fox crew, as well as the Editor of the Post, have downplayed this issue and inflated others to ridiculous status.

And second, there are those of us that DO see it and are disturbed by the implications. ANd my worry are the nutjobs out there. For example, the madman that shot up the Unitarian church to kill Liberal Leaders.

If we see it there is some nutjob out there that will see it, and my fear is him acting upon it. And I think if I say or do something that can be misconstrued, whether I mean it or not. I WILL feel obligated to apologize for that. I think a LOT of racism and violence is subconscious these days.

Just my thought on the issue. I truly believe there are people out there waiting for something to justify their insanity to the point of acting on it. And Limbaugh, The Post and any of Murdoch's holdings, have straddled the line in inciting these dangerous folk.

[Thorne]

Thorne,

I know you are being honest about not seeing it, your posts have always been respectful disagreement and not inflammatory. And I know sometimes my posts can seem strident. I don't intend that.

I understand that, and my comment about "strident" voices was not aimed at anyone here at all.

Two points: The getting their face in the news, opportunistic posturing cuts both ways. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the Fox crew, as well as the Editor of the Post, have downplayed this issue and inflated others to ridiculous status.

I agree with you completely, here. The strident conservatives are no less guilty of this than strident liberals. Both sides are pulling at the same rope in a never ending tug of war, and they all wind up with mud on their faces.

And second, there are those of us that DO see it and are disturbed by the implications. ANd my worry are the nutjobs out there. For example, the madman that shot up the Unitarian church to kill Liberal Leaders.

If we see it there is some nutjob out there that will see it, and my fear is him acting upon it. And I think if I say or do something that can be misconstrued, whether I mean it or not. I WILL feel obligated to apologize for that. I think a LOT of racism and violence is subconscious these days.

I understand your concerns, and the concerns of others here. I think one of my failings is that I don't always see the seamier sides of these issues. I always want to believe that most people tend to think clearly and logically, not letting themselves be swayed by inane rhetoric. Naive, as I've noted before.

Just my thought on the issue. I truly believe there are people out there waiting for something to justify their insanity to the point of acting on it. And Limbaugh, The Post and any of Murdoch's holdings, have straddled the line in inciting these dangerous folk.

That's what they do. How they make their livings. The really sad thing is that there are, apparently, so many who are willing to let these people do their thinking for them. I can never understand how someone could be proud to be called a "dittohead!"

[DuncanONeil]

That's what they do. How they make their livings. The really sad thing is that there are, apparently, so many who are willing to let these people do their thinking for them. I can never understand how someone could be proud to be called a "dittohead!"[/QUOTE]

If that is truely the case how is that more violent action comes from the left side of the spectrum than the right?

[Thorne]

If that is truely the case how is that more violent action comes from the left side of the spectrum than the right?

Who said anything about violent action? I was merely talking about those individuals who seem content to let so-called celebrities (many of whom have criminal records of one sort or another) determine what is right for them. That goes for political topics as well as fashion statements.

[DuncanONeil]

Ok Thorne! Did not come across that way.

[Belgarold]

That's what they do. How they make their livings. The really sad thing is that there are, apparently, so many who are willing to let these people do their thinking for them. I can never understand how someone could be proud to be called a "dittohead!"

If that is truely the case how is that more violent action comes from the left side of the spectrum than the right?[/QUOTE]

And where do you get the information that more violent action comes from the left than the right. Could you please justify your opinions with something like a fact or something.

You seem to wish to be inflammatory and making unjustifiable accusations. We are trying to have a civil discussion here.

[DuncanONeil]

If that is truely the case how is that more violent action comes from the left side of the spectrum than the right?

And where do you get the information that more violent action comes from the left than the right. Could you please justify your opinions with something like a fact or something.

You seem to wish to be inflammatory and making unjustifiable accusations. We are trying to have a civil discussion here.[/QUOTE]

First of all the quote attributed to me is not something I would ever say. I would never use the term "dittohead"

As for violent action from the left, that is a matter of observation.

Why should I bother further to provide you and supportive data when you refuse to do the very same thing. Also when data is provided you simply pretend it is either Whole Cloth or does not exist. Perhaps I should then accuse you of resorting to calling names.

It has become apparent that you are not worth my time nor effort. It appears that you have no inclination to consider anything that does not fit into your preconceived world view.

[DuncanONeil]

Thorne,

I know you are being honest about not seeing it, your posts have always been respectful disagreement and not inflammatory. And I know sometimes my posts can seem strident. I don't intend that.


Two points: The getting their face in the news, opportunistic posturing cuts both ways. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the Fox crew, as well as the Editor of the Post, have downplayed this issue and inflated others to ridiculous status.

And second, there are those of us that DO see it and are disturbed by the implications. ANd my worry are the nutjobs out there. For example, the madman that shot up the Unitarian church to kill Liberal Leaders.

If we see it there is some nutjob out there that will see it, and my fear is him acting upon it. And I think if I say or do something that can be misconstrued, whether I mean it or not. I WILL feel obligated to apologize for that. I think a LOT of racism and violence is subconscious these days.

Just my thought on the issue. I truly believe there are people out there waiting for something to justify their insanity to the point of acting on it. And Limbaugh, The Post and any of Murdoch's holdings, have straddled the line in inciting these dangerous folk.

Your comments regarding "nut jobs" is more of the kind of thing that decides that people are not responsible for their own actions. People see what they want to see in any image, or comment. The true facts is that people see in comments and images their own personal understanding of the world rather than that actually presented.

[Belgarold]

Just wanted to say Thorne, sorry for the confusion. I was just recognizing my own ability to get a little strident now and then, not to imply that I felt that you were directing your comments at me. And I agree with all you said. I would like to think that most people are thinking rationally too, but fear it is not always the case.

I apreciate your comments :-)

[Belgarold]

Thanks Dr. BuzzCzar. You embarrass me for my laziness in not finding these. Great work. Thank you for your post.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

Thanks Dr. BuzzCzar. You embarrass me for my laziness in not finding these. Great work. Thank you for your post.

I left out what was done to union organizers and members, AIM (native Americans), The Orangeburg Massacre, Kent State, etc etc. The list is much longer once you start thinking about it. There's been violence from the left as well, although I believe it to be much less than the reactionary right has perpetrated.

Thank you.

[DuncanONeil]

"much less than the reactionary right has perpetrated."

And here you make my point that violence comes from small extremist fringe. But you choose to use that to paint with a much larger brush.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

"much less than the reactionary right has perpetrated."

And here you make my point that violence comes from small extremist fringe. But you choose to use that to paint with a much larger brush.

No, I don't make your point. You are simply trying to change the point to something that can be defended. Your original point was there was more violence from the left than the right. I listed violence from the right, you've done nothing to back up your assertion. I will take that lack of response as proof you are wrong and accept your apology.

[Belgarold]

And even though Bush was destroying this country I heard of no one proposing violence. But during the campaign, assassination and violence was implied against Obama a few times. And even more recently Alan Keyes has said, "Something must be done about Obama." Implying something violent. "Joe the Plumber" was implying proposing using the military against Congressmen and women, maybe it was in jest. But that stuff 'ain't funny.'

Now the good Dr's post was well-cited. But this is like your, uh, support. observation. Who have you seen on the left proposing violence? I truly would like to know.

[steelish]

Bummer. My original reactive post to this thread was wiped out in the library crash. So...here is a re-post, although I don't think I will remember word for word what I originally said. (It will be very similar though, my thoughts on the matter have not changed).


Does it matter what the intent of the cartoonist is? If his/her intent was to imply racism, then everyone who reacts in that manner has lent weight to the cartoonist's work. The way we react is what matters.

For myself, the reaction was that an idiot wrote the stimulus package (which I agree with). My thought was of intelligence and common sense, NOT race.

Oh, and btw - Obama wasn't the one who wrote the stimulus package!