Do people 'deserve' universal health care?

[Thorne]

why should people who have tried hard to find a way out of a mess they did not choose themselves - bad state schools, closed circles of getting a decent job, illness - have to pay for the occasional cheating and hustling by some anonymous folks they have never met, but who happen to be living in the same kind of places and have more spacious consciences?

You know, I get tired of these kinds of arguments. "She didn't have any chance!" "It's not his fault that drugs are his only way out!" "They never got a break!"

I honestly don't care! It's not my fault they're in the situation they are in. I didn't force their parents to breed like rabbits when they didn't have two nickles to rub together. I don't trash the schools they attend, or the apartments they're living in. So why should I have to pay for their problems? I have my own problems to deal with.

Then along comes a career politician (who's never had to pray that his paycheck would cover the bills, who never had to worry about stretching that little bit of ground beef to cover two meals, who never had to watch a family member die because of a lack of decent care) and tells me I have to pay for universal health care so the poor people can be saved.

Why save them? Let them die off naturally. Let them pay the price for their stupidity and for the stupidity of their parents. Why should my kids have to suffer because so much of my pay gets taken by the government to pay for lazy pricks who are only interested in their next fix?

If it were up to me there would be no government handouts except for those who have already proven their worth to society, the elderly who've worked their lives away to make a better world for their children. Need a handout? Ask the church, or the Red Cross, or the Salvation Army. That's what they do. And I don't have to support them in their futile actions. But don't ask for my help. I've gotten to where I am through my own hard work and the hard work of my parents, and their parents and their parents.

My ancestors came over here from central Europe with little of nothing to their names, not speaking the language (doesn't seem to be a problem anymore, here), without jobs and without help. Yet they managed to drag themselves up to a decent life, and to help their kids get started on an even better life. So don't tell me it can't be done! All it takes is hard work and determination. Something that government handouts can't provide.

[Thorne]

As you can see from the above post, I'm getting more than a little peeved about this subject. It's something I've heard over and over for most of my life, and I'm tired of people defending other people who have done nothing to merit such a defense.

So I'm opting out of this thread. I'm sure I've upset a lot of people here, and if so I'm sorry.

[bellelapine]

You know, I get tired of these kinds of arguments. "She didn't have any chance!" "It's not his fault that drugs are his only way out!" "They never got a break!"

I honestly don't care! It's not my fault they're in the situation they are in. I didn't force their parents to breed like rabbits when they didn't have two nickles to rub together. I don't trash the schools they attend, or the apartments they're living in. So why should I have to pay for their problems? I have my own problems to deal with.

Then along comes a career politician (who's never had to pray that his paycheck would cover the bills, who never had to worry about stretching that little bit of ground beef to cover two meals, who never had to watch a family member die because of a lack of decent care) and tells me I have to pay for universal health care so the poor people can be saved.

Why save them? Let them die off naturally. Let them pay the price for their stupidity and for the stupidity of their parents. Why should my kids have to suffer because so much of my pay gets taken by the government to pay for lazy pricks who are only interested in their next fix?

If it were up to me there would be no government handouts except for those who have already proven their worth to society, the elderly who've worked their lives away to make a better world for their children. Need a handout? Ask the church, or the Red Cross, or the Salvation Army. That's what they do. And I don't have to support them in their futile actions. But don't ask for my help. I've gotten to where I am through my own hard work and the hard work of my parents, and their parents and their parents.

My ancestors came over here from central Europe with little of nothing to their names, not speaking the language (doesn't seem to be a problem anymore, here), without jobs and without help. Yet they managed to drag themselves up to a decent life, and to help their kids get started on an even better life. So don't tell me it can't be done! All it takes is hard work and determination. Something that government handouts can't provide.

Sir and I agree with you entirely. He would like to pass on His commendation to you and your family for understanding that there are no free rides in the world that only through hard work and honest labour (if labour is involved sometimes mental tasks can be trying as well) can you overcome obstacles.


Gagged_Louise : I have seriously been altruistic at times in my life only to have been told "You're the wrong colour for a scholarship"(despite having a 4.0 I wasn't needy enough), "Have a baby and we'll consider assisting you with your medical bills" (I had a tumor removed from my cervix). Now explain how in the hell anyone with half the brain I have or more of the brain than I have would TRY! if they are told...do this and you'll get it free? I've busted my ass my entire life so that people can pop out kids who will be taught that if they pop out a kid they can live for free too.
Yes somewhere every day someone is treated like shit. But not everyone you meet is worth respecting. Not everyone who cries they have repented, didn't have a chance or whatever their pitiful excuse may be worthy of anyone's help if they didn't actually try. Yeah I went to a shitty school...I went to a pretty damn shitty college (it lost it's accredation three times), but I struggled through and graduated. I got my diploma and I've moved into a better situation than my parents lived in. But I worked hard. I had parents who educated me that nothing was free and I'd have to scrape my knuckles if I wanted to get out of the dirt. I didn't take the handout, I wasn't even in the running for handouts based on how the government works.

If someone is legitimately disabled sure. I hope like hell they are getting all the government assistance they can possibly get. But when the day comes that I go to WalMart to put things on lay away for Christmas just so I can afford that Barbie castle for my daughter, and people on welfare are handing over cash and wearing so much bling my eyes hurt....there's a serious problem. And it's not just with universal healthcare.

[Ladymad]

You know, I get tired of these kinds of arguments. "She didn't have any chance!" "It's not his fault that drugs are his only way out!" "They never got a break!"

I honestly don't care! It's not my fault they're in the situation they are in. I didn't force their parents to breed like rabbits when they didn't have two nickles to rub together. I don't trash the schools they attend, or the apartments they're living in. So why should I have to pay for their problems? I have my own problems to deal with.

After my mother passed away, I at age 16 was forced to care for my sisters, both younger than I, and my elderly grandmother, very sick with cancer. I couldn't go and get a job, because I needed to go to school - to better myself, to eventually get a university education and be able to support my family properly in the future. Thank god for Australia's bungled medicare system, which paid for my grandma's cancer treatments and the treatment my mother recieved before she died. Our PBS system ensured, through $5 for 3 months of birth control, that there would be no additions to our already struggling family.

If I had lived in the grand ole US of A, I wouldn't be at uni right now. My grandma would have been dead 12 years ago, the first time she was diagnosed with cancer. My mother, who had been chronically ill for the last 8 years of her life, would also have passed away much earlier. I would never be able to afford healthcare because to pay for what I needed at the time to support my family, I would have needed to leave school and find a job. So I would have found menial work, which never would have given me any opportunity for any actual advancement, leaving me forever stuck at the bottom rungs of the society.

Americas healthcare and welfare system systematically destroy lives. Through the denial of fundamental human needs like healthcare or adequate welfare for those in need, America pushes people further down when they need help the most.

My life would be fucked if what had happened here had happened in America... To me, it would not be worth living.